These are my random musings. Hopefully they will be witty, insightful, and frequently updated.
Empowered Muslims Embrace Violence to Topple West
Published on November 8, 2005 By singrdave In Current Events

Well, it has truly hit the fan in France. And, allegedly, Australia has nabbed seventeen alleged terrorists allegedly working to allegedly blow up some alleged place; probably the Sydney Opera House or Harbor Bridge, according to The Scotsman. But l put it to you, good JU reader, that this current violence has its roots in the happenings of 9/11. But what is happening now is not the work of al-Qaeda.

Let me make this perfectly clear once again: this violence is not from al-Qaeda. Neither were the London bombings. Both events, despite the fact that one is ongoing, were caused by disaffected, unhappy Muslim youth. In fact, the London bombers were Londoners and Yorkshiremen, not Saudi like the majority (if not all) of the 9/11 hijackers. This current violence does not fit the modus operandi of an al-Qaeda operation.

What I see happening is that the Muslim fanatics were very empowered by their toppling of the Soviet Union in their conquest of Afghanistan (yes, it was with our help, but they leave that out). They then turned their attention to other parts of the world that were causing the Muslims grief: America and Europe. In Europe, Muslims for centuries had been persecuted and made to suffer, as far back as the Inquisition, the Crusades, and more recnetly, current immigration reform due to "too many Turks in Germany", etc. So al-Qaeda started a systematic campaign against the West.

1993: World Trade Center bombing. According to Wikipedia,
A Kuwaiti man named Ramzi Yousef began in 1991 to plan a bombing attack within the United States. Yousef's uncle Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, considered "the principal architect of the 9/11 attacks", gave him advice and tips over the phone, and funded him with a US$660 wire transfer.
Ramzi Yousef, who was not linked to al-Qaeda as such but funded by his uncle, Khalid Shaikh Mohamed (soon to be involved heavily with UBL himself), detonated a bomb in the basement of the WTC and was jailed for the rest of his life. A slap on the wrist for the Arab world.

1998:
US embassies in Tanzania and Kenya are bombed simultaneously. 302 dead, Clinton fires cruise missiles into a Sudanese camp where they think UBL may be located. They must have already known an attack was coming, since they were long gone from the site. Four men given life imprisonment. (See above for Muslim outrage at life imprisonment.)

Once again, America rolls over and plays dead in the face of blatant terrorist attacks. Were we fat, dumb, and happy because nothing happened here?

1998: Yet another attack on a US entity, this time a warship parked in the port of Aden. No retaliation whatsoever. What kind of message is this sending al Qaeda and the world of radical Islam?

All this time, the mosques were fertile ground for teaching young, lower-class, unemployed Muslim males who didn't have anything better to do with themselves. Like a cult, the imams seized upon this social despair and said, "Hey, why don't you learn a special secret about Islam? Why don't you go to Pakistan or Afghanistan to learn about what you can do as a Muslim? Show the world what you are capable of..."

2001: The world lurched sideways on September 11th. No explanation necessary. It showed the world that --
1. America was vulnerable.
2. Al-Qaeda could strike with impunity at any American target, at home or abroad.

There was dancing in the streets and cheering throughout certain parts of the world. We subsequently moved on to invade both Afghanistan and Iraq, dismantling perceived threats to our country.

Were there lessons learned by radical Islam from 9/11? Oh yes, they were learned. What was the message sent throughout the world on 9/11? The message was not "We're going to destroy America." Or even, "We're going to reconstruct a Muslim caliphate." It was, in the words of Twisted Sister, "We're not going to take it anymore." Al-Qaeda no longer had to be the ringleader, calling all the shots and financing terror throughout the globe. The torch was passed, rage was copied, and European-born Muslims started taking the lead. Richard Reid (the shoe bomber) was from South London, not Baluchistan. The London bombers were British and trained in Pakistan. These people have not grown from al-Qaeda... they were inspired by al-Qaeda and their victory on September 11.

Comments
on Nov 09, 2005
These people have not grown from al-Qaeda... they were inspired by al-Qaeda

I think this is largely true, and there is an important difference to bear in mind. Al-qaeda is an 'islamist' movement with a clear political agenda, a violent revolutionary strategy and an ideology that draws on, but is not identical to Islam. This movement is essentially fascistic in nature and, yes, it does seek the otherthrow of not just the west, but all of our values wherever they may be found.

However, not every rioting muslim youth is buying into this ideology. It is perfectly possible to feel (rightly or wrongly) so marginalised and be so frustrated by society that you want to respond with violence, but that does not necessarily mean that you are thinking beyond that to a total revolutionary re-ordering of the world. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, and sometimes youthful rioters are just rioting.
on Nov 09, 2005
sometimes youthful rioters are just rioting.


That is an excellent point, and I believe that many of the rioters are just "following the crowd." But I am saying the instigators are disaffected Muslim youth who have been taken in by the "cult" of radical Islam. And all this violence is just rallying the troops throughout the world to more acts of violence. "See?! See?! Remember how we brought France to its knees?"
on Nov 09, 2005
Slight Correction.  Clinton bombed an Aspirin Factory in Sudan, and empty training camps in Afghanistan.
on Nov 09, 2005
See?! See?! Remember how we brought France to its knees?"


And for our next trick, we'll make them snooty, and enjoy wine! Then we'll make swedes blond, and put holes in swiss cheese! No really, and we declare that we will make the sun come up in the east tommorow!

Sure they brought france to it's knees.....and I have this lovely anti-elephant charm to sell you. Of course it works, you don't see any elephants for miles, do you?

Nothing special, it's just the natural state of things. They haven't had any balls since the hundred-years-war. You could bring France to it's knees with a drunken Bea Arthur weilding a set of nail clippers in a menacing way.
on Nov 09, 2005

In Europe, Muslims for centuries had been persecuted and made to suffer, as far back as the Inquisition, the Crusades, and more recnetly, current immigration reform due to "too many Turks in Germany", etc.


That is plain wrong. Muslims were not persecuted for centuries in Europe. They were hardly any Muslims in Europe in the last 500 years. The only region where there were Muslims was the military border between Austria and the Ottoman Empire, and that was the result of Turkish, NOT European attacks.

Turks also did not immigrate to and stay in Germany because of some widely-known persecution of Muslims. They did it because there was no such persecution. Germany in particular had excellent relations with the Ottoman Empire before World War 1 and with Turkey after World War 2.

Since the 1500s Europe has persecuted nearly everyone on Earth, except Muslims.

If you are looking for a history of persecution involving Muslims, ask why there were more Jews living in Europe than in the Arab world, and look at the fate of Christian communities in the Ottoman Empire.
on Nov 09, 2005
Dr. Guy:
Clinton bombed an Aspirin Factory in Sudan, and empty training camps in Afghanistan.


Thank you, I was trying to Google it but couldn't get specifics. But regardless, there were no casualties in an otherwise empty and futile gesture.

Leauki:
They were hardly any Muslims in Europe in the last 500 years. The only region where there were Muslims was the military border between Austria and the Ottoman Empire


Well who were the Moors, then? Dark Spaniards?

Turks also did not immigrate to and stay in Germany because of some widely-known persecution of Muslims.


I did not say that Turks were moving *to* Germany because Germans hate Muslims. I am saying that as a reaction to German perception of being overrun with Muslims, German legislation is trying to stop further immigration and, where possible, encourage Turks to leave.
on Nov 09, 2005

Thank you, I was trying to Google it but couldn't get specifics. But regardless, there were no casualties in an otherwise empty and futile gesture.

I dont know.  The number of headaches in Sudan sure skyrocketted!

on Nov 10, 2005

They were hardly any Muslims in Europe in the last 500 years. The only region where there were Muslims was the military border between Austria and the Ottoman Empire


Well who were the Moors, then? Dark Spaniards?


In a way, yes. It is likely that many Arabs and Moors mixed with the Spanish population. But that's besides the point.

But if you could point me to the location of large (or small) Moorish communities in Europe after 1500, I would be very happy indeed.
on Nov 10, 2005
Moorish communities in Europe after 1500


I don't remember putting that year anywhere in my contention. I remember saying:

In Europe, Muslims for centuries had been persecuted and made to suffer, as far back as the Inquisition, the Crusades, and more recently, current immigration reform due to "too many Turks in Germany", etc.


But in your response you cited "500 years" and I quoted the line in its entirety to answer. I did not mean to dispute the "500 years" part of the contention. According to Wikipedia, the Moors were eradicated from Spain in the late 1400s and by the mid-1500s, almost all traces of Muslim ancestry were gone from Spain. Their influence remains.

I stand corrected, but with caveat: the Moors were killed off in the late 1400s. This implies a violent attitude towards them. My original contention was that Muslims in Europe have suffered. Since I did not cite a time frame, I stand by my original statement.

on Nov 10, 2005

It is likely that many Arabs and Moors mixed with the Spanish population. But that's besides the point

You have not seen "Y TU Mama Tambien" I take it?

on Nov 16, 2005
Completely off-topic:

You have not seen "Y Tu Mama Tambien" I take it?


I haven't. That was about Moors?
on Nov 16, 2005

I haven't. That was about Moors?

No, about 2 over testosterone Mexican adolescents (redundant I know) trying to get into the pants of a Spanish lady (it is actually kind of a coming of age movie, Mexico style).  The Spanish lady is the color of Casper.

Actually, as is my SIL.  But she is 2nd Generation American.  Her mother is from Guadelajara.

on Nov 16, 2005
The London bombers were sent to Pakistan by family and attended extremist religious schools over a series of summers, so it is hardly fair to blame this on Western societies.

The problem is with certain parts of Islam, not us. Our actions may be used as distorted propaganda, but the problem is with the terrorists.